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(单词翻译:双击或拖选)
DAVID GREENE, HOST:
Boris Fishman was 9 years old in 1988 when his family left Belarus for New York. As Jews in what was then the Soviet1 Union, their prospects2 were limited, living under the constant threat of discrimination and violence. But his grandfather was resourceful. So unlike others, they did not lack for good food. Boris Fishman wrote about all this time in "Savage3 Feast," a new memoir4 that he intersperses5 with recipes. Boris' grandparents also survived the Second World War, and they were no strangers to hunger.
BORIS FISHMAN: The food was plenty in a way that stopped during the war. And for me, most personally, it was my grandmother's experience that was formative in this regard. We're from Minsk. It was one of the first places invaded by the Nazis6 in June 1941, and food disappeared. My grandmother was incarcerated7 in the Minsk ghetto8 for almost two years. She managed to escape right before it was liquidated9 and then spent two years wandering the swamps of Belarus, subsisting10 on potato peels. And that does something to a person's psyche11.
I will never - I'm getting goose bumps right now thinking of it, even though I've thought of it a million times. The story of her - the first loaf of bread she saw after the war. She leapt on it like an animal, devoured12 it and vomited13 all of it back up. That is the formative food-related experience for me in New York in 2019, almost a century later.
GREENE: So is it just that deep appreciation14 for something that you realize is not necessarily always going to be there for you?
FISHMAN: I think it's more perverse15 than appreciation. I think it's a kind of addiction16 powered by a fear and terror of it running out. And no amount of rational thought or improved experience seems very effective at putting a dent17 into that kind of psychosis. And again, it's amazing, 30 years after immigrating18 to the States, the degree to which we approach food as a resource that might vanish. We've not had to scrounge for a meal in over 70 years.
GREENE: This plays out in such interesting ways, sometimes humorous, in the book. I think to when you and your entire family - your parents, your grandfather, his home aide - all took up an entire row on a flight from New York to Miami. And I guess when you have the philosophy like you're talking about, you don't take a two-hour plane ride without making sure you have enough (laughter) food there for you.
FISHMAN: Yeah. I mean, when you leave the home, a little bit of the control that you have over where the food comes from - and it's not only the provenance19. It's also the quality. You do want to eat well. And so I mean, look. If American Airlines served things worthy20 of the palate, we perhaps wouldn't pack as many tin-foil bundles as we do. But the fact is that they don't.
GREENE: So what would you put in tin foil and bring on an airplane, like that flight to Miami?
FISHMAN: I mean, how much time do you have? It all depends on what you cooked last night. Perhaps you went to the supermarket and they had some, you know, cod21 that was wild and properly sourced but also on sale. So you bought some of that. You might have, you know, taken a half-hour to marinate it in an ungodly combination of spices. And then you just put it between two slices of bread, and then you just tin-foil it up, grab a tomato that you can bite through like an apple, and you've got - you're good for at least 30 minutes that way (laughter).
GREENE: Tell me about your grandfather, Arkady (ph), because he's so prominent in this book and clearly so important to you in your life.
FISHMAN: He was a survivor22 in the metaphorical23 sense. He could wriggle24 his way out of any situation you placed him in. Whatever you needed, he could get. He was a provider. He was the very essence of how ex-Soviet people define masculinity, in the most positive sense of the term. Because he was an incredibly soft-hearted, generous man. He was also, in some ways, closed-minded. There was no one less equipped to understand a grandson who had chosen to use his education to go into writing books, which he always read the first and last page of. He didn't have time for what was in the middle.
Hopefully, that starts to give you a portrait. I mean, I could go on for a very long time.
GREENE: So your grandfather, after your grandmother's death, would have a home aide in his house in Brooklyn, and one who became so close to him, Oksana. She became like family to you. I got the sense that she really brought you and your grandfather closer together.
FISHMAN: She was the bridge in every imaginable way. There are ways you can behave with family members that you cannot allow yourself to behave with people outside the family. And so I deferred25 to Oksana and listened to Oksana in ways that I was too young, and too callow, and too proud, and too stubborn and too resentful because I didn't feel understood by this man. She managed to understand that there would be a time when this man would not be a part of the world - which, unfortunately, is now - that I wasn't able to hear from him. And this is to say nothing about the meals that she put on the table between us. For the duration of those meals, our difficulties became harder to remember.
GREENE: Well, let's talk about the food. It is her recipes that you feature throughout your memoir. For people who don't know the food that well, you know, tell us about one dish that you just love and remember for a certain reason.
FISHMAN: Sometimes no one carries greater prejudice toward your own background than yourself. And so I, until a certain point in my life, had the same prejudice that many people do about ex-Soviet food, which is, heavy, pale, spiceless. And then I ate from Oksana's table. And we're talking things like peppers marinated in buckwheat honey and garlic, duck stuffed with prunes26 and apricots. So many other things that, just so toothsome and not heavy at all, especially if prepared the right way.
But the one dish that sticks out in my mind - I remember coming over to kind of an evening gathering27 in their home, and there was a pie in front of me. And I bit into it, and it tasted like no other pie I'd ever tasted. And that's because it was filled not with cherries or strawberries, but ground chicken liver. And nothing could possibly sound less interesting, except it's one of the most delicious things I've ever had. And every single person I've pressed it on has had the same exact reaction.
GREENE: So I guess one question I have is, like, you could take the pages with recipes out of your book and have, like, a mini cookbook that people could just have in their house and use and make dishes. But are they really enjoying it, even if they follow the recipes to a T, if they don't know where they came from and the stories behind it?
FISHMAN: That's absolutely right. I think that if you - you know, maybe the recipe should come with a kind of disclaimer or requirement. Do not make these unless at least one Russian-speaking person and at least one bottle of vodka is present. I mean, yes, we're gregarious28 people, and we like to sort of get direct and honest and loud. But it's not as if all of this isn't made possible by copious29 amounts of alcohol, you know? And as long as you bring the same into your gathering, you'll get most of the way, too. It shouldn't stop you from trying.
GREENE: Boris Fishman is the author of "Savage Feast." It is the story of three generations, two continents and, of course, a dinner table. Boris, nice talking to you. Thank you so much.
FISHMAN: Same here. Thank you so much for having me.
1 Soviet | |
adj.苏联的,苏维埃的;n.苏维埃 | |
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2 prospects | |
n.希望,前途(恒为复数) | |
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3 savage | |
adj.野蛮的;凶恶的,残暴的;n.未开化的人 | |
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4 memoir | |
n.[pl.]回忆录,自传;记事录 | |
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5 intersperses | |
v.散布,散置( intersperse的第三人称单数 );点缀 | |
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6 Nazis | |
n.(德国的)纳粹党员( Nazi的名词复数 );纳粹主义 | |
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7 incarcerated | |
钳闭的 | |
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8 ghetto | |
n.少数民族聚居区,贫民区 | |
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9 liquidated | |
v.清算( liquidate的过去式和过去分词 );清除(某人);清偿;变卖 | |
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10 subsisting | |
v.(靠很少的钱或食物)维持生活,生存下去( subsist的现在分词 ) | |
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11 psyche | |
n.精神;灵魂 | |
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12 devoured | |
吞没( devour的过去式和过去分词 ); 耗尽; 津津有味地看; 狼吞虎咽地吃光 | |
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13 vomited | |
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14 appreciation | |
n.评价;欣赏;感谢;领会,理解;价格上涨 | |
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15 perverse | |
adj.刚愎的;坚持错误的,行为反常的 | |
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16 addiction | |
n.上瘾入迷,嗜好 | |
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17 dent | |
n.凹痕,凹坑;初步进展 | |
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18 immigrating | |
v.移入( immigrate的现在分词 );移民 | |
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19 provenance | |
n.出处;起源 | |
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20 worthy | |
adj.(of)值得的,配得上的;有价值的 | |
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21 cod | |
n.鳕鱼;v.愚弄;哄骗 | |
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22 survivor | |
n.生存者,残存者,幸存者 | |
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23 metaphorical | |
a.隐喻的,比喻的 | |
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24 wriggle | |
v./n.蠕动,扭动;蜿蜒 | |
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25 deferred | |
adj.延期的,缓召的v.拖延,延缓,推迟( defer的过去式和过去分词 );服从某人的意愿,遵从 | |
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26 prunes | |
n.西梅脯,西梅干( prune的名词复数 )v.修剪(树木等)( prune的第三人称单数 );精简某事物,除去某事物多余的部分 | |
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27 gathering | |
n.集会,聚会,聚集 | |
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28 gregarious | |
adj.群居的,喜好群居的 | |
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29 copious | |
adj.丰富的,大量的 | |
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